Category talk:AB builds

From GuildWiki

[edit] Keep category?

I've suggested here that this category be removed... for one basic reason: it's pointless. I'll copy-paste what I said about AB from that page: "AB builds are a joke; Alliance Battles are randomway, with a 4-person team build at best. I've seen (literally) people using these stupidass builds in AB, and our team won in each case. A basic how-to-AB guide is fine (which would consist mostly of "CAP, DAMNIT!") but specific builds are going too deeply down a shallow lane." Feedback? -Auron 05:29, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

I've seen lots of terrible builds in RAs too and sometimes won in a team that's using terrible builds. But we have RA builds because there's some good RA builds regardless even if it's possible to win with some bad builds in RAs at times. AB builds can be specific, not just no res sig, I mean they can be structured for ABs which are different to any other PvP game type. I don't think ABs tend to draw many really skilled PvPers but there are some sucessful 12v12 builds regardless so I disagree with removing this cat. --Xasxas256 05:40, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

How is it possible to use a 12v12 build? You get shuffled into a 12 person team only having the chance to coordinate with three others. And actually, I was thinking about including RA's in the "weak categories" section, because it's random. I see Random Arena as a place to test your compatability in a group; it's almost impossible to test true group builds. Honestly, Guild Wars is crippled by people all using the same build (or at least a sickening number of them... see also: touch noobs). If we removed all "set-in-stone" builds for supposedly "random" arenas, people would be more creative, and the entire experience would be more fun. I don't see the point in using somebody else's build for a "random" experience; if someone wrote a general mesmer guide and had specifics (sections on useful skills, or perhaps "Playing a Mesmer in Random Arenas") I wouldn't mind, but making a "build" to have people copy throws creativity out the window, and in the end, reduces the skill of the players that only copy someone else's build. -Auron 06:07, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

You could have two people with identical hands in poker yet a good player will still win more often and win bigger, not everybody can think of a new amazing build that nobody has have used before but the skill still comes from the way you play. Besides that's an intellectual question that doesn't need to be answered to justify the existence of this category IMO, although I will say that RAs will always be random because the effectiveness of the majority of builds will vary with the other builds in your random team. Should we have removed our documentation of IWAY when it was popular, fearing that more people would use it? People can use whatever build they want that's their choice not ours, we're a documentation site not big brother.

You can't tell me that there aren't builds that do well in ABs or RAs (proof is that in ABs you'll see people saying "need another nuker and a Blessed monk"). This category contains those effective builds. I still disagree but I'm enjoying arguing the toss :) --Xasxas256 06:40, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

IWAY can be documented well enough... I don't fire off against GvG/HA builds because honestly, if you're digging through GuildWiki to find a build to win halls, chances are you're not going to win. GvG builds are the same. Touch Noo-... ranger takes no skill to play, unlike a complex HA or GvG build. So while it "works" for RA, I see no point listing it. And honestly, people in AB don't know what they need/want. You ask for a Nuker (which isn't technically a build) and you could get any variety of skills, pretty much any from the fire magic line (yes, and these same Nukers spam flare on rangers...). The most organized group I've seen get together for AB was 3 touch nub, 1 cripshot. Should we list that as a AB Team Build? No, it's common sense. The only thing that really stops three touchers from killing is a fleeing target, so you add a cripshot. -Auron 11:08, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

I won't do ABs very often but last time I did the group leader was quite specific. I joined as a nuker, he asked me to switch in Bed of Coals I think it was so I did that. Same as HA really, when you advertise for an E-Surge or Blood Spiker where you go through the person's skill bar to check what variation they're using. Last time I was in RA I didn't come accross many touchers, I *think* although I don't RA much either, that their popularity has peaked already. Just because some people bring crap builds into RAs or ABs doesn't mean that there are not valid builds for them. We've all seen henchway in HA and even in GvG you'll see it at times on lowely ranked opponents. Sometimes you'll see mending warriors in GvG (although more often during the off season), who cares there is still valid builds.

ABs and RAs are designed to be accessable to people, it's the first type of PvP the new players will try. Having some decent builds on the GuildWiki is a good thing, it gives people a hand. Even if a person has been playing the game for a bit the AB/RA builds can be useful, if you're rolling a warrior for the first time, why not look up a build here so you've got something to start from while you fine tune a build and learn how to play the profession. Or if you're having problems with touchers, then you can look here to see what counters are avaliable. --Xasxas256 20:17, 25 October 2006 (CDT)